Scoring of Bach's Vocal Works
Discussions

Seeking Cantata for SATB (OVPP), two violins, Cont.

Jason Marmaras wrote (March 20, 2005):
I am, as the subject states, seeking a cantata for strings (two violins), choir and Basso Continuo.

As there are not many such cantatas, I ask whether you could suggest some cantata performable by such forces (without a viola, that is). Ideally, one with no soprano solo. (yeah...) [alto or tenor solo cantatas are OK]

If it is no trouble, include other [baroque] works as well...

[the alto is a countertenor, and we may find a recorder and viola in time, though I doubt anyone will be able to hear the recorder over the modern strings...]

Thanks in advance,

Doug Cowling wrote (March 20, 2005):
[To Jason Marmaras] Much of Monteverdi's music is for two violins and continuo. "Beatus Vir" (Novello), "Dixit Dominus" and "Laudate Pueri" are all fine works. Some of the Buxtehide cantatas are violins only.

Glenn S. Burke wrote (March 20, 2005):
A generally useful reference: http://infopuq.uquebec.ca/~uss1010/oeuvres.html

Catalogues for a number of composers, in some cases listing the orchestrations movement by movement (the Bach and Handel listings are especially detailed).

The Bach page is: http://infopuq.uquebec.ca/~uss1010/catal/bacjs/bacjs.html

Of course, to answer your question you would have to do an exhaustive search... And it's in French but I don't find that a problem. (Je ne s... um, I don't speak it).

Aryeh Oron wrote (March 21, 2005):
[To Jason Marmaras] I believe you may find Walter F. Bischof's site useful.
See: http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~wfb/cantatas/ainst.html

Dale Gedcke wrote (March 21, 2005):
[To Jason Marmaras] For Bach's Cantatas go to: www.cs.ualberta.ca/~wfb/bach.htmlcantatas/minst.html for a listing of instruments for each movement of each cantata.

Aryeh Oron wrote (March 22, 2005):
Scoring Table of Bach Cantatas

Following recent query by Jason Marmaras and previous inquiries and requests (either through the BCML or off-list), I thought of adding to the BCW a table which lists the scoring of Bach Cantatas. So far I have put Cantatas BWV 1-50 into the table. You can see the results at the page: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Score-Table-BWV.htm

Before proceeding, I would like to get your feedback about the usefulness of such a table.

Any ideas about corrections/improvements/etc. would be also most welcome.

Doug Cowling wrote (March 22, 2005):
[To Aryeh Oron] I know this is an outrageous request, but I would find an outline of the scoring of each movement of a cantata most valuable. When programming choral works for a concert, I find I have to go to a printed catalogue to see exactly what the disposition of the scoring is.

However, your table as it stands would be a valuable resource.

Thanks for you work

John Pike wrote (March 22, 2005):
[To Aryeh Oron] Aryeh, you are perfection itself, and so is your web site. There are many people out there, I am sure, who would find such a table useful in planning concerts etc.

Dale G edcke wrote (March 22, 2005):
[To Doug Cowling] If you really need the instruments employed "by movement", the University of Alberta web site provides that detail .... and much more.

See: www.cs.ualberta.ca/~wfb/bach.htmlcantatas/minst.html.

Jason Marmaras wrote (March 20, 2005):
[To Dale Gedcke & Aryeh Oron] I thank those of you that responded to my plea, yet one of my questions was probably weakly put, and unanswered as such.

Do you think there are Bach Cantatas performable by a 4-part choir, two violins and basso continuo -even if they aren't scored for those only. E.g., do you think that in some Cantata the viola part could be omitted, not destroying the music?

Thanks again, in advance and for the answers so far,

Neil Halliday wrote (March 23, 2005):
Jason Marmaras wrote: <"Do you think there are Bach Cantatas performable by a 4-part choir, two violins and basso continuo -even if they aren't scored for those only.">
Have you considered BWV 150, scored for 2 violins , bassoon, continuo, with soprano and bass soloists. If you don't have soloists, you might take a leaf from Werner's book, and present the arias with the respective choir sections.

Jason Marmaras wrote (March 24, 2005):
Aryeh Oron wrote: < Any ideas about corrections/improvements/etc. would be also most welcome. >
It seems quite perfect as it is, to me! (my ever-recurring notice of unimportant things: you got a + instead of a = for the timpani in the Legend)

Doug wrote: > I know this is an outrageous request, but I would find an outline of the
scoring of each movement of a cantata most valuable. When programming choral works for a concert, I find I have to go to a printed catalogue to see exactly what the disposition of the scoring is. <
Hmmm... I thought that you could see those in the sites linked by our fellow members after consulting Aryeh's useful table; yet the Cantata scoring seems to say nothing of the scoring of individual movements (well, in small-force cantatas, it limits the performers of each mvt. to those of the Cantata - but what of continuo Arias in such cantatas as BWV 21?)

And, well, perhaps we could share this chore? I mean, should Aryeh have to do all of this by himself?

Aryeh Oron wrote (March 25, 2005):
Scoring Tables of Bach Cantatas

I have almost completed the work on Scoring Tables of Bach Cantatas. For your convenience they are arranged in two tables:
Sorted by BWV Number: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Score-Table-BWV.htm
Sorted by Voice: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Score-Table-Voice.htm

I hope you will find them useful.

Any ideas about corrections/improvements/etc. would be most welcome.

And now I am going to sleep...

P.S. I consider building similar tables for movements from Bach's vocal works, but it will take much more time.

Jason Marmaras wrote (March 27, 2005):
[To Aryeh Oron] I had a flash of a perhaps difficult but surely useful feature: that the tables could be [digitally] searchable. That is to say, that [with the appropriate program?] one could search for example for a cantata "with only singers, two violins, viola and continuo" or one with "with at least a flute and two violins". I don't know to what point this is possible; it surely seems quite out of reach for the time being...

[All our] Thanks for your non-ending work,

Search Works/Movements - Feedback needed

Aryeh Oron wrote (July 15, 2005):
Following requests from members of the BCML and other Mailing Lists, as well as visitors of the Bach Cantatas Website, I have started working on a new facility, which allows searching Bach's vocal works and/or movements from them according to required combination of voices and instruments.

Please take a look at the page: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/INS-Search.htm
The guidelines how to use the new facility appear also at the same page. Several examples are included as well. So far I have inserted the data for Cantatas BWV 1-12.

Please try the new facility and inform me if it answers your needs. Do do not hesitate to suggest corrections/improvements.

Search Works/Movemnts - All Cantatas are in

Aryeh Oron wrote (October 27, 2005):
Have you ever wanted to find out:
- How many arias did Bach write for soprano?
- What movements include alto solo with oboe?
- What movements are written for choir of SSATB?
- List of instrumental movements from cantatas (no choir or solo voices).
- List of movements for trio of singers.
- List of movements with 4 trumpets.
- What cantatas can be performed with ten, bass and strings?
Etc.

All these questions and many others can be now easily answered.

Let me remind you that about 3 months ago I sent to the BCML the following message:
************************************
Search Works/Movements - Feedback needed
Following requests from members of the BCML and other Mailing Lists, as well as visitors of the Bach Cantatas Website, I have started working on a new facility, which allows searching Bach's vocal works and/or movements from them according to required combination of voices and instruments.
Please take a look at the page: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/INS-Search.htm
The guidelines how to use the new facility appear also at the same page. Several examples are included as well. So far I have inserted the data for Cantatas BWV 1-12.
Please try the new facility and inform me if it answers your needs. Do not hesitate to suggest corrections/improvements.
************************************

Unfortunately, the feedback to that message was rather slim, and therefore I decided to hold on and give higher priority to other projects connected to the BCW.

However, about 2 weeks ago I discovered through the usage reports I get from the Search Engine used for this facility (FreeFind) that it is used more often than I had expected. There were some hundreds queries per week, whereas the database included only about 40 cantatas.

Since I did not want that any user of the BCW would be misled by partial results, I decided to give some push to building the database of cantata movements. I am glad to inform you that the database of the cantatas in now complete. There are 1728 records/pages of Cantatas BWV 1-215 and all movements from them (excluding non-Bach Cantatas).

You can answer yourselves easily the above mentioned questions and such by using the new Search Works/Movements: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/INS-Search.htm
There is a link to this facility from the Home Page of the BCW and from many other pages (the Links bar at the bottom).

I hope you will find the new facility useful. In the future I intend to add to the relevant records/pages info connected to the CM & CT pages, as well as building records/pages of movements from Bach's other vocal works.

Since the database has been built manually, some errors might have slipped in. Please do not hesitate to report to me any error you find and /or suggest corrections/improvements.

Search Works/Movements from Bach's Vocal Works

Aryeh Oron wrote (November 2, 2005):
Have you ever wanted to find out:
- How many arias did Bach write for Soprano?
- What movements include alto solo with oboe?
- What movements were written for choir of SSATB?
- List of instrumental movements from cantatas (no choir or solo voices).
- List of movements for trio of singers.
- List of movements with 4 trumpets.
- What cantatas can be performed with tenor, bass and strings?
Etc.

All these questions and many others can be now easily answered.

Following requests from members of the BCML and other Mailing Lists, as well as visitors of the Bach Cantatas Website, I have added a new facility, which allows searching Bach's vocal works and/or movements from them according to required combination of voices and instruments.
See: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/INS-Search.htm
The guidelines how to use the new facility appear also at the same page. Several examples are included as well.

I am glad to inform you that the database in now complete. There are 2,385 records/pages of Cantatas BWV 1-215 (excluding non-Bach Cantatas), as well as other vocal works BWV 225-524, BWV 1081-1089 & BWV 1127, and all movements from them.

I hope you will find the new facility useful. In the future I intend to add to the relevant records/pages info connected to the CM & CT pages.

Since the database has been built manually, some errors might have slipped in. Please do not hesitate to report to me any error you find and /or suggest corrections/improvements.

BCW: Multi-index of movements of cantatas of J.S. Bach

Sergei Toropov wrote (June 8, 2016):
Spreadsheet "Multi-index of movements of cantatas of J.S. Bach" prepared by Sergei Toropov from Russia placed on the BCW.
English: http://bach-cantatas.com/Scores/MI-Mvt-Eng.htm
Russian: http://bach-cantatas.com/Scores/MI-Mvt-Rus.htm
Linked from:
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/IndexBWV.htm [under Contents]
http://bach-cantatas.com/Scores/index.htm [under Contents]
This table is an extended version of the table, placed earlier in the same place.

The multi-index is the Excel spreadsheet, where in 1808 musical numbers from the 255 fully or partially surviving cantatas are characterized by various characteristics:

1) - attributes - registration features the available in the majority of published sources (numbers, names, authors of texts, dating, religious feasts, readings, etc.) - 12 columns of the table;
2) - features characterizing borrowing tunes - 8 column (new);
3) - characteristics of musical forms and styles of movements - 5 columns (new);
4) - signs of sense perceptions of music - 12 columns.

Table comprising: lines with signs cantatas; rows to all movements of cantatas; rows to all movements of works of other genres involved in borrowing tunes (new). A special place is occupied by Chorale melodies (new). They are indicated use in cantatas and all other Bach works.

Sergei Toropov
Russia, Irkutsk

William Hoffman wrote (June 8, 2016):
Fine work that I am only beginning to navigate. Besides W. Neumann Cantata Hanbook, there are other fine indices on the cantatas, especially texts, and late Martin Petzoldt's Kommentar, Vols. 1 and 2 . I'm looking forward to Vols. 3 and 4, rest of vocal music. Luke Dahn's chorales are great new work too. So much remains.